Tuesday, September 3, 2019

reply to Malcolm's comment

To go to the beginning of this blog and an introduction to the Lifewave cult click here.

Malcolm made some good points in his comment on one of my posts. I replied to his comment but I didn't make a full reply because I was pushed for time and the comments section isn't the best place for a full reply anyway. So in this post I am making a fuller reply to some of the points he made.

Firstly I would like to say that I do believe that his enlightenment was the real thing, just the same as other people who in Lifewave were called Adepts. I also believe that the Lifewave enlightenment is the same as what mystics in different parts of the world have sought and sometimes found. So I'm not saying that his enlightenment is less than other people's enlightenment.

The point I was trying to make is that enlightenment is different from what we were led to believe. His account is valuable because no one else connected with Lifewave has given an account of what enlightenment actually is. That is why I was surprised by his account. Enlightenment seems to be to do with this material world. It seems to be about the perception of the material world, how someone relates to this world.

I expected enlightenment to be about some higher level of reality. I believed at the time that there are many levels of reality (Planes of Existence). There is the material world, which is the lowest level of reality. Then there is the highest level at the other end, you could call that God or Brahman. Somewhere in between is the level of the mind. These kinds of ideas are common in spiritual circles, in the Theosophical Society for example, and in Lifewave too.

He said that he didn't interpret what happened to him as merging with Brahman. However, I think that many people who have had enlightenment do interpret it as merging with Brahman, or union with God. Suzanne Segal seems to have had the same thing happen to her and gave a similar account in her book. She uses the word 'vastness' instead of Brahman or God.

On the 1meditation site they say this: "a desire to get beyond all separation and to merge with the cause of all things". What is the cause of all things? Some would call it Brahman, others would call it God. The Neoplatonists called it 'The One'.

It's a similar idea though. The idea that there is a universal or primordial consciousness and that you are part of it. You are not separate from it. I don't believe in this universal consciousness anymore, but I can see that people would interpret their enlightenment in that way.

Now I would interpret it as a shift in brain functioning. The brain can no longer distinguish between subject and object. Everything seems subject without object, everything seems to be part of you. Nothing seems to be separate from you. I think that ideas about Brahman, very common in Hinduism and New Age movements, derive from a misunderstanding and misinterpretation of this state of consciousness.

In one of my posts I copied-and-pasted something from a forum to do with the inner light. I thought that the writer (mungojelly) had a good understanding of what the inner light actually is. Malcolm replied that it didn't make sense to him.

What mungojelly was saying is that our brains create a model of our bodies and our environment. This model is updated by our sense perceptions. When we meditate we are focusing our attention on something - a mantra or the breath - and ignoring physical sensations apart from that. The model isn't getting updated in the same way and so the model starts doing unusual things.

The example that mungojelly gives is when the breath seems to turn into light. That seems to happen to people when they meditate on the breath, which is common in Buddhist circles. Eric Lerner writes about this in his book. I don't know how it happens with people who meditate using a mantra. I doubt if the mantra turns into light, or sound.

I understand that seeing coloured discs is common. Blue, golden or white usually. Then it seems you end up with an all-pervading white light. I used to think that this light was something spiritual in nature and divine in origin. Now I think that it is just something produced by the brain. That doesn't mean that it is valueless, it can help in entering different altered states of consciousness.

It's an interesting question as to why to begin with the light disappears when you focus your attention on it. That could be because if we turn our attention towards it we are treating it as a sense perception when it isn't that. We are updating the model and because the inner light doesn't derive from our senses then when the model gets corrected it is removed.

Malcolm said that he didn't think that Krishnamurti was as important in Lifewave as I had thought. He could be right about that. The reason why I thought Krishnamurti was important was for two reasons. First, an Adept had said in a talk that Ishvara (John Yarr) had sent someone to talk to Krishnamurti. This person told Krishnamurti that the Buddha of our age had now arrived and was teaching and enlightening people. He meant John Yarr himself.

The story went that Krishnamurti got angry with this person and told him to go. The Adept then said that it looks as if Krishnamurti is a very angry and dismissive man. It's not surprising that Krishnamurti got angry though, he was noted for hating anyone who set himself up as a guru. He was dead against gurus. He must have thought to himself 'Have they understood nothing of what I have said?' He said that he wasn't a teacher and had no teaching and no method (which seems to be not quite true).

The other thing is that when I was in Lifewave in Liverpool in the 1980s we had a little library of spiritual texts. I had a couple of books I didn't want so I donated them to this library. Some time after, one of the Second Initiates wanted to talk to me. He solemnly stated that one of the books was unsuitable so he was returning it to me. I said to him that they probably didn't want the book by Krishnamurti either. I said this because I knew that Krishnamurti hated gurus. To my surprise he said no, the Krishnamurti book is acceptable.

So I was intrigued. Why did Ishvara seem to like Krishnamurti so much despite Krisnamurti hating gurus? It could have been that John Yarr had sent people to talk to many spiritual teachers throughout the world, but it didn't seem that way. Krishnamurti seemed to be important to John Yarr.

Although Krishnamurti said he wasn't a teacher and had no teaching or methods, that's not quite true. Often teachers in the nondualist tradition say the same thing. It's part of their philosophy. If you read what Sam Harris has said about nondualism or Ken Wilber they do say that.

They have something called 'direct pointing' or 'pointing-out instructions'. This is where someone helps you to be aware of your inner consciousness. Then you can focus your attention on that as your form of meditation. I'm sure nondualists will say that I'm misrepresenting what they believe but the less extreme nondualists will accept they do have these practices.

According to Ken Wilber you establish the 'Witness'. The Witness will eventually disappear, and then everything you turn your attention towards will seem to be part of you. I don't know if John Yarr ever received or gave 'direct pointing' or anything like it, or if he just understood the principle and that was a big help to him in getting to enlightenment.

It would seem though that if you want this enlightenment then nondualists techniques would be a big help. It's found in the teachings of Ramana Maharshi, Advaita Vedanta and Tibetan Buddhists. Meditating on the inner light and sound, and entering the various altered states of consciousness is the main thing though. The altered state of consciousness called in Lifewave 'Second Initiation' or 'going beyond form' is what the Theravada Buddhists call the 5th jhana or the Sphere of Infinite Space. That's quite a high one but there are even higher ones.

9 comments:

  1. sound like a lot of intellectualization! As someone who knows the whole LW set up since 70s I can confirm that there's a lot of misinformation and Krishnamurti was never linked to the Light and Sound tradition. Of course both light and sound are still structures and a unified state has no definition. Both 1 meditation and the splinter Zaretti group thewayback meditation spectacularly fail to show an actual awareness of how to assist meditators and in recent times there have been all manner of cockups. Its well intentioned but not especially well informed. Respectfully "the brain" as a sensory system has nothing to do with perception of refined L and S as a person can think whatever they want and the energy is unaffected and obviously totally independent to any brain function or thinking. Its laughable that "spiritual texts" were given any creedence in LW and of course Baily was dismissed in 1970s and then embraced in 80s. Reincarnation was frowned upon in 70s and then advocated in 80s! All a bit inconsistent and bonkers. Aside from all this there were substantive opportunities for meditative advancement if people could get past all the nonsense

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    1. This person Mark Zaretti a.k.a Advanced Meditation Numbskull, sent threatening emails to certain members of JY cult when he left the JY cult.

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    2. Cult Leader's will give out information to certain members of their Cult but not the rest. They will have inner circles. They will do anything to retain their members because they feed on their energies, this is how they survive. Beneath their goody smiley faces and a perfect image are countless wealth of lies. Hopefully people will see through this.

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  2. I used to believe that the Inner Light and Sound were spiritual energies or manifestations of a spiritual energy. I used to believe that they are always there and that we can tap into them. I used to believe that the Inner Light that I see is the same Inner Light as anyone can see in meditation.

    I thought that they may exist on different planes but ultimately they come from God or Brahman or The One. I don't believe any of these things anymore. I think they are generated in the brain when it is deprived of sensory input.

    The Light and Sound tradition is the Radhasoami and Santmat traditions in Northwest India. The Divine Light Mission of Guru Maharaj ji derives from these. Nobody in these movements had enlightenment though.

    The Lifewave enlightenment seems to be the same as in Suzanne Segal's book Collision with the Infinite. Malcolm's and Suzanne's accounts are basically the same. So it seems to me that John Yarr was probably not following just the Light and Sound tradition. His practice may have been influenced by another tradition.

    What could that other tradition have been? At one time I thought Yarr might have practiced 'choiceless awareness' which is associated with Krishnamurti. That has some similarities to Budhhist vipassana meditation.

    Although Krishnamurti is not usually thought of as a nondualist teacher, some of what he wrote seems to be similar to 'direct pointing'. Ken Wilber was a nondualist who wrote that if you follow the nondualist path (most nondualists will say they don't have a path) then first you are aware of The Witness. Then The Witness will disappear and after that everything you look at seems to be part of you. "You don't witness the clouds, you are the clouds." He calls this One Taste.

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  3. anyone who has sat for weeks tottaly immersed in light and sound with no body awareness will confirm that the idea that these energies are from the brain is with respect, pretty daft...LOL

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  4. There are plenty of people who use the inner light and sound who don't believe that it is some kind of spiritual energy.

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  5. That phrase says it all!

    You don't "use the inner light and sound" it exists wholly independently of any thinking, sensory processes and imagination.

    It doesn't matter in the first instance what you "believe" as beliefs are determined by thinking and part of the sensory system that determines "the sense of identity" which of course is by its nature defined and not "identity" as a unified state.

    A meditator has the potential (this is a key consideration as not all potential is realised) to gain insights independently of any sensory processes bu having access to something which preceedes thinking.

    Of course 'light and sound" are also dualistic in that they are not unlimited, but that's another discussion

    The idea of "channelling" via pendulums and other such means by individuals is of course fundamentally flawed as more often than not the sense of self biases the perceived outcome, so you end up with a cerebral mess of thinking as it evident by 1 meditation, mark zaretti's the way back meditation (back to where?) and other such groups

    Best Regards

    One Man Clapping

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    1. Zaretti Pendulum Cult @confused.com, living a deluded world of fairytale and fantasies deceiving themselves individually and the masses.

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  6. I agree that the inner light and sound are independent of thought and imagination. It is still a product of the mind though. The mind can produce thoughts, emotions and memories. It also produces a model of the material world, and it is this aspect that we use when meditating on the inner light and sound.

    I don't understand your point about 'using' it. We meditate on it for a purpose - it is not an end in itself - and therefore we use it. In Malcolm's account of his enlightenment the inner light and sound disappeared when there was a shift in consciousness. He wondered where all that energy had gone. After that, everything he looked at seemed to be part of him. The inner light and sound had served their purpose.

    This parallels what others have written about, Suzanne Segal and Ken Wilber. The Witness disappears, then everything you look at seems to be part of you. The inner light and sound and the Witness seem to be deeply connected and could well be the same thing. This is an insight which is missed if you think of it as some kind of 'energy'.

    In one of my posts, about the nature of the inner light and sound, I quoted someone called mungojelly. He has stated clearly what many believe. The mind produces a model of the material world, that model is constantly updated by sensory perceptions. When we meditate the model is no longer being updated in the same way because we are ignoring sensations. The model starts goes awry and starts saying that there is light when there is none. We can allow this process to continue: flashes of light can become discs of colour, then eventually an all pervading white light.

    You say it doesn't matter what I believe. If we are looking at the moon and you tell me that it is made of cheese and I tell you that it is made of rock, then you could tell me it doesn't matter what I believe. The moon has an existence independent of my thoughts or perception. But just because the existence or composition of the moon doesn't depend on our thoughts or perceptions, that doesn't mean that we can't think about it and come to sensible conclusions.

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